Wednesday, September 29, 2010

Gaelcon Eldar 1750

Iggy's Mechdar 1750

Remember I was talking about Vypers? Look who joined the party!

Autarch w/ Fusion gun
Autarch w/ Fusion gun

5x Fire Dragons w/ Exarch, DBF, Crack Shot (Autarch here)
5x Fire Dragons (Autarch here)
5x Fire Dragons
3x Wave Serpents w/ Twin-Linked Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon, Stones

5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent w/ Twin-Linked Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon, Stones
5x Dire Avengers

2x Vypers w/ Scatter laser, Shuriken Cannon
2x Vypers w/ Scatter laser, Shuriken Cannon

2x Fire Prism w/ Shuriken cannon, Stones
Falcon w/ EML, Holo-Fields, Stones

Special thanks to Thud on this one, who's had to put up with a torrent of emails from me over these past few weeks. For those of you who don't know him, he hails over at TKE's stellar blog here, has been known to daringly contribute useful tactica over at Warseer, and usually answers to the name 'god'.

So there it is. It's fast, efficient and totally Eldar, with +2 reserves to boot.




P.S. In preparation for any 'Vyper' slander, I have a kettle of boiling water and a mean pair of forks at hand. Come get some!

PPS. Queue - *cue. You'll know when you see it and go WTF? :p


Anonymous said...

Needs more thunderwolves (come on you were expecting this post right?)

Sorrowshard said...


I have run a very similar list, its posted on my blog but I'll pop it here for you to see now

Autarch + Melta with 5 Dragons in serpent with cat upgrade and TL cannons

Autarch+ Melta with 5 Dragons in serpent with cat upgrade and TL cannons

6 Dragons in serpent with cat upgrade and TL cannons

5 Avengers in a serpent with Tl Brightlance + cat upgrade

5 Avengers in a serpent with Tl Brightlance + cat upgrade

5 Avengers in a serpent with Tl Brightlance + cat upgrade

2 Vypers with Cat upgrade + scatter laser (wondering if a third prism is a better option....)

Prism + cannon

Prism + cannon

The autarchs need to go with the 2 smaller squads to make them more reliable , you can also deploy both separately to give yourself a chance at a 4th vehicle target, putting one with the bigger unit of dragons just gives your opponent one logical target, wheras all three units will be a similar threat level, I feel the DBF + exarch is a waste of points as your dragons are there to kill hard targets.

I dont know how you run your vypers and if you have had success Im interested to know how.

They are in my above list as a kinda points filler and to act as cover shields with serpents I do not think they are good for their points but do work better than walkers with mech lists than walkers.

Having the bright lances (you could take EMLS) in the list gives you another ranged threat to hard targets and also gives you the potential to start 'opening' transports from turn 1, also you can start stunning or diverting some fire from the dragons as they close , as you have no way to give your dragons fortune in this list its important to find ways to take pressure from them.

As I said I have run a list almost identical to the one you have posted and after a fair bit of playing the list i just posted seems stronger I really feel the Vypersor at least investing too many points in them is a liability.

I have stopped running a list like this at all tho as I find the ability to fortune serpents too important to loose.

one final observation, are you really happy with the number of scoring units you have ?

I'm happy to bounce some ideas around with you ,I'm running upto my local tourneys soon and have had to settle on a list.

Otherwise good luck with that


Gredus said...

Mmmm lots of stuff to shoot at! ^^

Gredus said...

No star Engines?

DaveHowitzer said...

"As I said I have run a list almost identical to the one you have posted and after a fair bit of playing the list i just posted seems stronger I really feel the Vypersor at least investing too many points in them is a liability."

I dunno if I'd agree to be honest, although saying that I guess it really does depend on the metagame where you are. I just don't see the fact that you have the BLs on your Serpants as a sound move tbh you may see it as more tank hunty, but really you're using Lances for AV 14 and with 3 units of Dragons and a linked Prism shot how much AV 14 busting goodness do you need really?

The "Torrent of Fire" Eldar tactics are, at the moment at least the one thing we can use to our advantage - I mean come on, does another army have access to THAT much S6 firepower, albeit overcosted. Using his Vypers/Serpents to get round the side of Razorbacks/Chimeras that are so prevelent in the game just now is going to really make all those shots count,and in my opinion (might be wrong) should give you more of a chance of knocking them out.

Furthermore you ask if he is really happy with the amount of scoring units he has...well...seems to me you only have 5 more of those squishy Avengers in there man. Please don't take the comment the wrong way, it isn't meant as a negative, just merely to point out that perhaps you need a unit of Rangers or whatever in there to sit on an objective or something.

I'd be pleased to discuss the armies with either of you however.

Love, Dave

Sorrowshard said...

Dave please re read my post, I explained the need for ranged AT I laos pointed out EML would be fine in that capacity also. those vypers NEED side/rear armour to be vaguely useful and that is likely to be turn 2-3 , also killing a vyper squadron is the work of moments for most 5th lists.

Bar your theory hammer I have played with essentially both lists and was merely offering advice from my experiences with those.

and the third scoring unit is huge , its not 'only' one more unit. it means your opponent has to work 33% harder to kill your scoring stuff as you only need to contest the rest which is quite realistic to do with massed skimmers.

Iggy said...

Sorrowshard, the Fire Dragons are there to demech the opponent plain and simple. 5 will do it, and do it well. There are times however when you need to cause wounds, and the DBF/Crack Shot combo makes that unit flexible enough to tackle such a role if need be.

On to the Vypers. Made from paper, but sold as plastic. Yes Vypers are AV10, open-topped and fold to even basic marine firepower. How do we deal with this poor durability? Easy. Range 36", Str6, Heavy 4 - the Scatter Laser - one of the best assets we Eldar have in 5th Edition. This long range, coupled with your fast skimmer status, will allow you to shoot from an optimal firing position safe from short to mid-range firepower.
Whatever weapons DO mitigate your range, these will be your only concern. But then, you do have cover saves, right? While this is easier said than done, it still IS easy to achieve. Provided one Vyper in a unit of two is behind cover, the entire unit gets the bonus.

So now we've removed some weapons as a potential threat to your Vypers, and provided cover saves against those that are left.

Too many players these days are concerned with Vypers 'dying'. The only missions where this truly matters is Annihilation. The obvious point is that Annihilation missions require KPs to win. This is where your Squadron status kicks in. The opponent needs to kill the entire squadron to get that 1 KP. If 1 Vyper is dropped, this is your queue to move flat out and hide with the other one, for the rest of the game if you have to. It's cheap, but it works. You should n ever make it easy for your opponent to take them out, not when you can help it.

"one final observation, are you really happy with the number of scoring units you have ?"
In 5th Edition, 3 scoring units beat 2 scoring units, and this is something I'm forced to compensate for. The plan is to simply make sure I have one more Objective than my opponent at the end of the game, which means a lot of contesting last turn. 7 Eldar Tanks, and 4 light Skimmers and enough firepower to match will mean that *hopefully* there's enough pressure on the opponent throughout the game to achieve this.

Finally, some thoughts on objective games as a whole. Even if you've been crippled, and your remaining units are a smouldering fragment of your initial force, all is not lost.
I recall a game vs a very mean Imperial Guard army that ended in a draw. I had only two units left, contesting both objectives. Sure, not the preferred victory result, but it saved me from losing the game. I have a reputation to protect!

Thanks for the comments guys.
SO much easier to type than speak when sick :)

Iggy said...

Regarding the Fire Prism, I don't rate them in 3s.

Simply put, two Prisms offer a significantly better option than a single Prism - Str.10 ap 1, and a handy marine-killer template, both twin-linked.
When it comes to three, the bonus is rather trivial, and I think points are best spent elsewhere.

Sorrowshard said...

Sometimes my prisms can spend the whole games stunned/shaken or the first wep destroyed effectively kills them, the third one in theory gives you some security vs that , also as soon as one is down/unable to fire there will be more no more linky linky zap BOOM !

which makes me EMO

and whats not to like about another 60 inch ranged str 9 blast wep ?

If you are going to a tourney with this , test the shit out of it first play everyone/ everything with them , you will soon know where the weakness' are and if they are fixable.

The list I am set to run this year (not the list i posted here) is pretty much the culmination of 8 -12 months heavy playtesting.

My problem with the vypers is I KNOW that if someone else fields a small unit of low AV open topped stuff and I decide I want them dead , then 99 percent of the time they will be, this would be less of a problem if Vypers were cheaper.

I wish you luck If your heart is set, I just hope you dont come to regret taking the vypers.

also the dbf can cause issues with wound allocation where you kill less stuff than you would just firing melta or just using the flamer.

Demeching your opponent at range (assuming you have the tools) allows you to use your mobility to your advantage more, I try to avoid using the dragons for this, they are best utilized to smash hard targets as they will usually die right after.

Mike Howell said...

"I have a kettle of boiling water and a mean pair of forks at hand. Come get some!"

Sounds like an all-you-can-eat 'Nid Buffet.

Thud said...

Solid list.

I hear that Thud character is awesome.

Sam said...


What in an Eldar list are you really planning on demeching at range with besides Fire prisms?

The only other thing I can think of are Bright lance serpents which are FOOKEN expensive and those points are probably better spent on fire dragons.


Sorrowshard said...

Well sam , if i could buy a 4th unit of fire dragons that would be a valid point , and I would honestly rather do so than on anything else.

Personally I agree , BL's are too expensive to be of worth, however EML is cheaper , more flexible and works just as well as a BL on any transport target.

So I would try to get eml's for any non-dragon containing transport.

I have had plenty of success, my current list does not have any EML's only because it is that tight for points and I have AT sufficiently covered.

Iggy said...

Being tight for points seems to be what we're all about these days :p

I do agree that EML's work just as well as Brightlances on transports - no need for our overcosted lance weapon, great as it is on paper, it's just nothing to boast about. Sure, the EML doesn't negate FNP, and it suffers vs AV14. But leave that to the Fire Dragons...

I used to run Brightlance and EML spam for fun at my club, and it actually worked out nicely, but these days it's all about volume of fire for me. It's cheap and multipurpose, catering for hordes and light armor alike.

Sorrowshard said...

Lol, it does negate FnP as it is str 8 and double their T ;o)

The thing wth the EMl is that it is multi purpose , hell if you still need to move 12 you can still hose hoard at full effect, multiple plasma missiles and doom can make alot of mess, not to mention forcing multiple pinning checks.

but yeah mostly they are there for 'opening' transports, and for that they work great, I find my shuricannons bounce far more than I would like.